I can't tell you how angry I'm.
I'm using FreeFileSync to sync to my backup drive.
I made a "compare"and found my backup drive is a little too small. So I decided to sync all others stuff except my music folder.
I clicked on my music-folder on the left which was found and on delete, I thought this would only exclude the music-folder from beeing synced....
What happened:
WITHOUT ANY QUESTION! it deleted 60GB files. Weeks of work (copying all my disks to harddisks, alot of live-music, thats lost forwever now!)
How can this happen???? This is a backup utility and it deletes files with one wrong click without asking? From both drives, backup drive and original!!! I'm so angry!
Now I have a backup drive, I#m loosing my data, cause of the backupsoftware.
DAMN IT!
deleted all my Files in 10 seconds without asking!
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PS:
10GB Where in the Windows-litterbox, most of the other stuff I'm restoring with undelete-tool "recuva". But this is really really stupid and should be fixed very quickly. The data where obsiosly first moved to the windows litterbox, but then deleted cause its too small.....
It can't be, that with one wrong click everything is lost in seconds on both drives! Make a warning-window, when something is going to be deleted!
10GB Where in the Windows-litterbox, most of the other stuff I'm restoring with undelete-tool "recuva". But this is really really stupid and should be fixed very quickly. The data where obsiosly first moved to the windows litterbox, but then deleted cause its too small.....
It can't be, that with one wrong click everything is lost in seconds on both drives! Make a warning-window, when something is going to be deleted!
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Ok, I calmed down a little and now its time for some constructive critic and ideas....
The problem:
After scanning, on the left side appears the list with folders which to sync and how many percent changes. If you mark ohne folder here and delete it, cause you think, you will only prevent it from beeing synced you will delete the folder without any prompt on both(!!!) drives. The data will be lost! Ok, they will be moved to the windows-trashbox first BUT if there are too many files in the folder they will be moved and then be deleted forever (cause windows-trash is only 4-5GB big and then deletes)
solution:
please just make a hint/diolog box in this case, which shows, that data are going to be deleted....
The problem:
After scanning, on the left side appears the list with folders which to sync and how many percent changes. If you mark ohne folder here and delete it, cause you think, you will only prevent it from beeing synced you will delete the folder without any prompt on both(!!!) drives. The data will be lost! Ok, they will be moved to the windows-trashbox first BUT if there are too many files in the folder they will be moved and then be deleted forever (cause windows-trash is only 4-5GB big and then deletes)
solution:
please just make a hint/diolog box in this case, which shows, that data are going to be deleted....
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There are a number of visual cues that show what is going to happen after making a selection in the middle grid: a large tooltip shows an icon and a description of the operation on mouse-hover and a small icon is shown permanently otherwise. A change of the background color is a second notification that the sync direction was changed.
In general this all seems to be pretty sufficient. And even if the user sets the wrong direction by accident there is the safety net of being able to specify the "deletion handling" which defaults to "recycle bin". Was the problem in your case that you did not recognize the recycle bin icon as a symbol for deletion?
In general this all seems to be pretty sufficient. And even if the user sets the wrong direction by accident there is the safety net of being able to specify the "deletion handling" which defaults to "recycle bin". Was the problem in your case that you did not recognize the recycle bin icon as a symbol for deletion?
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It is pretty obvious that if you right click on a file and select delete that it will delete that item not remove it from the list. What you wanted was to move your mouse over the icons in the center column and select the do nothing icon. I would also say that if you are new to ANY software, you should do thorough testing on sample data first. Never do anything new without your data being backed up somewhere first. Blasting the developer isn't a solution.
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Made a test today:There are a number of visual cues that show what is going to happen after making a selection in the middle grid: a large tooltip shows an icon and a description of the operation on mouse-hover and a small icon is shown permanently otherwise. A change of the background color is a second notification that the sync direction was changed.
In general this all seems to be pretty sufficient. And even if the user sets the wrong direction by accident there is the safety net of being able to specify the "deletion handling" which defaults to "recycle bin". Was the problem in your case that you did not recognize the recycle bin icon as a symbol for deletion?Zenju
I made a testfolder and did the same as yesterday.
Surprise: the dialog-box shows up as I suggested. I can't say what happened and why, but I promise, this dialog box didn't show up yesterday.
Maybe it was cause it was so much data? i can't really test again, cause I don't wanna erase my data again....
But I think there was a bug yesterday. I never click yes yes yes...And I'm really sure this dialog didnt pop up yesterday.
If I where you, I now wouldn't believe this and think: " ok one of these guys who just klick dialogs without reading"...
Ok maybe just strange day, but if anyone else reports, amybe there is a bug, I don't know....
Ok, nothing more to tell here. After hours with recuva, I have most data back and I'm warned....
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> i can't really test again, cause I don't wanna erase my data again....
As srjones mentioned, you can always assemble a bunch of sample data and test on those files to see if you can reproduce the condition.
As srjones mentioned, you can always assemble a bunch of sample data and test on those files to see if you can reproduce the condition.
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Had a similar issue. I was using FileSync and had a problem getting it to run on a windows schedule (at start up). So, whilst in the FileSync program, I decided to 'start again' with the sync jobs and deleted them (bottom left window - configuration). This also took out my hard drive files and my backup which was attached at the time. No messages, no warnings - I may have missed something, but this behavior is lethal.
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Any developer or other comments on this behaviour?
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@Gully Ravine: Do you have a specific question?
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Yes please - I hoped it was clear from my post on 2013-04-08 above and my separate email to you. If I have a batch job set up to backup to an external drive and have this connected and then delete the batch job via the Configuration window of FreeFileSync, should I expect to lose both my original data AND my backup simultaneously and without warning?
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No of course not. But you probably lost your files while doing something different. Maybe you deleted directories on overview panel or the main grid?
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No, it was as I said - simply deleted the batch job within the Configuration Window and I could see the files disappearing as they were deleted.
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I think it's the setup of your sync. How is it setup? two-way, update ,mirror? When you run a sync, especially in silent mode, it's not going to ask you at every file "do you want to delete." Check all of your settings.
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It might be a set up issue, I will check. However, it was a simple Mirror of four folders from a hard drive to an external drive, set up to run daily via a Windows schedule and was working fine. I was trying to amend it to run on 'PC start-up' and decided to delete the batch job and recreate it in line with this new schedule. I had Windows Explorer open at the same time and was amazed to see the files disappearing after deleting the job - especially from both drives. There were no warning messages given at any stage.
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And if you have it set to be silent that would happen. This is definitely a config issue.
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Dear sr
I very much appreciate your contribution to this, but please could you explain a little further? If I search the help file for 'silent', I see no topics returned. Is this the F8 key? If so, could you expand on what it does please?
I would be very disturbed by a simple, undocumented command that could 'hide' messages advising the user that 'the action you area about to take will delete both your master data and your backup without further warning, is this OK?'.
If this really is 'planned functionality', then in my view, the software is, as I mentioned in my earlier post, 'lethal' and should come with a suitable health warning.
Please note - I still use this product and have no plans to cease its use - it is generally very good. However, it does seem to have a few problems from my experience. For you to just feed back that losing both a master data see AND a backup is a 'config' issue and due to me using an undocumented feature seems to me to be missing the point.
Let me repeat, I did not ask for any files to be deleted, I deleted a batch file in a config window. If this action was known to delete both the master dataset and its backup, then whether or not 'silent' is set - surely a suitable warning should be given. Just stating that 'silent is set, this would happen', misses the point entirely.
I very much appreciate your contribution to this, but please could you explain a little further? If I search the help file for 'silent', I see no topics returned. Is this the F8 key? If so, could you expand on what it does please?
I would be very disturbed by a simple, undocumented command that could 'hide' messages advising the user that 'the action you area about to take will delete both your master data and your backup without further warning, is this OK?'.
If this really is 'planned functionality', then in my view, the software is, as I mentioned in my earlier post, 'lethal' and should come with a suitable health warning.
Please note - I still use this product and have no plans to cease its use - it is generally very good. However, it does seem to have a few problems from my experience. For you to just feed back that losing both a master data see AND a backup is a 'config' issue and due to me using an undocumented feature seems to me to be missing the point.
Let me repeat, I did not ask for any files to be deleted, I deleted a batch file in a config window. If this action was known to delete both the master dataset and its backup, then whether or not 'silent' is set - surely a suitable warning should be given. Just stating that 'silent is set, this would happen', misses the point entirely.
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on the way of understanding what happened and whether it is user error or software error: can you reproduce this? And report in detail what you did?/share config files, etc?
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I have no intention of trying. Having spent 20 hours recovering my data, the last thing I want to do is test someone else's software, that is their job.
As previously mentioned, I set up a simple job to run on a windows schedule to mirror 4 folders from my hard drive to an external drive. By deleting the job in the config window, I lost both my original and backup data. Even if I made an error somewhere along the line, I would expect some warning saying 'are you sure' if I was about to lose a load of data - even in a 'silent' mode (which you have still not explained as I requested). I would also NEVER expect the software to destroy both datasets (original and backup) no matter what error I made (if any).
As you may imagine, I removed all traces of this software from my PC whilst I effected a recovery. I have since reverted to its use, but do not have any original config files to share.
As previously mentioned, I set up a simple job to run on a windows schedule to mirror 4 folders from my hard drive to an external drive. By deleting the job in the config window, I lost both my original and backup data. Even if I made an error somewhere along the line, I would expect some warning saying 'are you sure' if I was about to lose a load of data - even in a 'silent' mode (which you have still not explained as I requested). I would also NEVER expect the software to destroy both datasets (original and backup) no matter what error I made (if any).
As you may imagine, I removed all traces of this software from my PC whilst I effected a recovery. I have since reverted to its use, but do not have any original config files to share.
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Well if you have no intention of trying to reproduce this in a test environment then I would say that you may be better served working through this on your own. Unless you can help us help you more, there may not be much we can do for you. Just deleting a configuration in the configuration window, as I did just test it, doesn't delete any data. It just removed the config file from the list.
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As developer many assumptions are cristal clear, so I sometimes forget this may not be the case from a user's perspective, so I'll spell it out explicitly:
There is no code in the context of the configuration panel window that touches files or even deletes files or even deletes files without any feedback.
There is no code in the context of the configuration panel window that touches files or even deletes files or even deletes files without any feedback.
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I accept that in this case I am but a user. However, my whole working life has been in software development, so I do have a very good understanding of how the development life-cycle works. I also acknowledge that many users think software developers deliver useless software and many developers think users are dumb (I generalise, of course)!
srjones67 seems to think I have a ‘test environment’ in which to try to work out what went wrong – I do not. I have some critical data on my PC that I am not prepared to risk further.
I have already given a very clear explanation of what I did and what happened – I cannot provide any further data or files to help. As I said previously, the original config files were deleted along with the software whist I recovered my lost data.
Thank you both for looking into this and responding – you say you have tested it without seeing the same problem (I have to assume that the same build / version was used on the same operating system) and that no code exists in the application to do what I described. I guess, therefore, I fall into the dumb user category.
However, some combination of my actions within the FreeFileSync application, the latter of which was to simply delete the entries listed in the config window, did cause my original data AND my backup data to be deleted. The only other way I can see to make this happen is for me to go into Windows Explorer and delete the folders from both drives (i.e. two discrete steps both giving a prompt and requiring a reply). I assure you I did not do this.
Are you able to indicate what steps, if any, may result in the action I saw? Is there anything that I could do (no matter how stupid) which might cause both datasets to be deleted without warning?
I remain convinced that if I lost data, as did bow flow (original post in this thread), there has to be some combination of actions that causes the effect we both experienced.
As a final thought for now, have you tested it by removing ALL files from the config window and not just one file? I.e. make it empty?
srjones67 seems to think I have a ‘test environment’ in which to try to work out what went wrong – I do not. I have some critical data on my PC that I am not prepared to risk further.
I have already given a very clear explanation of what I did and what happened – I cannot provide any further data or files to help. As I said previously, the original config files were deleted along with the software whist I recovered my lost data.
Thank you both for looking into this and responding – you say you have tested it without seeing the same problem (I have to assume that the same build / version was used on the same operating system) and that no code exists in the application to do what I described. I guess, therefore, I fall into the dumb user category.
However, some combination of my actions within the FreeFileSync application, the latter of which was to simply delete the entries listed in the config window, did cause my original data AND my backup data to be deleted. The only other way I can see to make this happen is for me to go into Windows Explorer and delete the folders from both drives (i.e. two discrete steps both giving a prompt and requiring a reply). I assure you I did not do this.
Are you able to indicate what steps, if any, may result in the action I saw? Is there anything that I could do (no matter how stupid) which might cause both datasets to be deleted without warning?
I remain convinced that if I lost data, as did bow flow (original post in this thread), there has to be some combination of actions that causes the effect we both experienced.
As a final thought for now, have you tested it by removing ALL files from the config window and not just one file? I.e. make it empty?
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If you don't have a test environment then you need to create one from your prod environment, no questions asked. Just deleting config files from the list wouldn't do what you are saying. That being said you need to try to replicate what you did that caused this. I know Zenju is the developer and he is always willing to help as much as possible but we as users need to be willing to contribute as much as possible to the effort. If you're not willing to help any further then maybe there can be no resolution to your issue. Nowhere in this post do I even see that you say what version of FFS you are using or what OS you're in. If you're a developer you would know that all of this should have been in your first post instead of profanity. on 2013-04-08 you stated you had a similar problem to Bowflow, no you didn't, they tried to right click a file in the organization window and choose delete. This will delete files but not without prompting first, if you are running the latest version. Doing the same in the Configuration window does not delete any files. I work IT every day as a career. Asking you to help us by creating a test environment that replicates your prod environment is not too much to ask to help resolve this issue.
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OK I'll take back the profanity part as Bowflow did that. But ultimatly Bowflow said oh I did it again and now it's fine. Well if nothing changed how now suddenly does it work fine? User error? Very good chance someone inadvertently clicked and didn't even realize it. Just like those who complain about the other software getting installed with FFS. It's cause at time we all don't pay attention.
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> Is there anything that I could do (no matter how stupid) which might cause both datasets to be deleted without warning?
If keyboard input focus is on the overview panel instead of the configuration panel and you press the delete key and accidentally slip and also press the enter key, then the deletion confirmation dialog would pop up and close immediately deleting files selected on the overview panel on both sides. The dialog would flash only very shortly and the status bar below the main grid would show which files it is currently deleting.
> I have already given a very clear explanation of what I did and what happened
Think about it from the other side: Would you be able to debug a situation where files are disapparing when doing a simple action, which is not reproducible? In 99% of cases most developers will not even bother to further think about such feedback. Sometimes if you get really lucky, they have a hunch of what might be going on and do something useful with this basic info. But generally, the simpler a problem looks, the more complex it's origin must be, otherwise there would be thousands of users suffering the same problem.
If keyboard input focus is on the overview panel instead of the configuration panel and you press the delete key and accidentally slip and also press the enter key, then the deletion confirmation dialog would pop up and close immediately deleting files selected on the overview panel on both sides. The dialog would flash only very shortly and the status bar below the main grid would show which files it is currently deleting.
> I have already given a very clear explanation of what I did and what happened
Think about it from the other side: Would you be able to debug a situation where files are disapparing when doing a simple action, which is not reproducible? In 99% of cases most developers will not even bother to further think about such feedback. Sometimes if you get really lucky, they have a hunch of what might be going on and do something useful with this basic info. But generally, the simpler a problem looks, the more complex it's origin must be, otherwise there would be thousands of users suffering the same problem.
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srjones67 you seem to be getting rather overheated about this which is really unnecessary and does not help at all. I have never offered any profanity about this, which thankfully you realised and corrected in your later post. Nor have I ever made any comment about other software being installed as part of the FreeFileSync installation, so please don’t try to link me in with that debate. The comparison I made in my first post (which referred to bow flow’s original post) was that I had ‘a similar issue’ in that I lost a lot of data without warning when using FreeFileSync.
I accept the comment that it would have been helpful if I had given version numbers etc, but this has not prevented you from stating that you have tested it and it works fine – all without stating which version you confirmed this on.
If you can explain how I can create a test environment that does not put my existing data at risk, let me know and I will consider doing this. Just bear in mind that for some, as yet unexplained reason, I lost a lot of data and do not want this to happen again.
All I can do is re-state what I believe happened. I had FreeFileSync set up to run via a Windows schedule to mirror four folders from my hard drive to an external drive. This was working fine. I decided to change the schedule to run on start-up as opposed to a set time and deleted the windows schedule. I then deleted the batch jobs via the FreeFileSync config window. At that point, my original data AND ITS BACKUP were deleted. As far as I am aware, the only other program open on the PC at the time was Windows Explorer. Hence, my assumption that FreeFileSync has to be implicated somewhere. An obscure bug? Possibly. A stupid user? Probably, but surely nothing I do in FreeFileSync should cause this effect. Deleting either the master dataset or the backup I can understand, but both? This should not be possible without a clear, unavoidable warning being displayed.
Again, I fully accept that this may be user error – but I have absolutely no idea what this might have been. Zenju, I really appreciate that you have looked into this and sympathise with you trying to placate a user who has possibly made an error or trying to identify a possible software issue that cannot be reproduced. Believe me, I do know how this feels.
Finally, I’m not sure what I am expecting. I have reported a possible issue, you have investigated and cannot see a reason for it. Maybe I just offer my thanks for your responses to date and we call a halt to this here and now. If you are happy that this has been fully investigated, then I accept it was down to me ‘doing something’.
I accept the comment that it would have been helpful if I had given version numbers etc, but this has not prevented you from stating that you have tested it and it works fine – all without stating which version you confirmed this on.
If you can explain how I can create a test environment that does not put my existing data at risk, let me know and I will consider doing this. Just bear in mind that for some, as yet unexplained reason, I lost a lot of data and do not want this to happen again.
All I can do is re-state what I believe happened. I had FreeFileSync set up to run via a Windows schedule to mirror four folders from my hard drive to an external drive. This was working fine. I decided to change the schedule to run on start-up as opposed to a set time and deleted the windows schedule. I then deleted the batch jobs via the FreeFileSync config window. At that point, my original data AND ITS BACKUP were deleted. As far as I am aware, the only other program open on the PC at the time was Windows Explorer. Hence, my assumption that FreeFileSync has to be implicated somewhere. An obscure bug? Possibly. A stupid user? Probably, but surely nothing I do in FreeFileSync should cause this effect. Deleting either the master dataset or the backup I can understand, but both? This should not be possible without a clear, unavoidable warning being displayed.
Again, I fully accept that this may be user error – but I have absolutely no idea what this might have been. Zenju, I really appreciate that you have looked into this and sympathise with you trying to placate a user who has possibly made an error or trying to identify a possible software issue that cannot be reproduced. Believe me, I do know how this feels.
Finally, I’m not sure what I am expecting. I have reported a possible issue, you have investigated and cannot see a reason for it. Maybe I just offer my thanks for your responses to date and we call a halt to this here and now. If you are happy that this has been fully investigated, then I accept it was down to me ‘doing something’.
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Test environment, you just need to make a full or subset copy of your source and destination and repeat your steps against that. Again what version are you running? I'm at 5.15. Copies of the configs would be good to see to know exactly what they were set to do. I see too many users downloading this software, which is great by the way, and just going ahead and doing this against live data without testing it first. The software works it is almost always a setup or config issue. If you've never used a software before NEVER run it against live data until you have understood how it works.
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OK – thanks. Your words of advice are sound and I did test my setup before using on live data. However, I am not going to test every piece of software functionality and after proving my backups were being created as expected, I moved onto ‘real data’. I don’t have a problem that the software is not doing as normally expected and would be predicted from its title – quite the opposite.
There are two issues re further testing. First, I have 5.15 installed (Windows 7), but the issue I had was on an older version and I prefer not to regress. Second, if I did make a copy of my dataset and use FreeFileSync to make a backup copy of this on my external drive and then repeat the steps I took before (which was to delete ALL entries in the config window) there is a possibility (no matter how small) that the same thing may happen to my live data – a risk I am not prepared to take as I’m sure you can understand.
So, to test it, I need a separate machine / external drive / time.
There are two issues re further testing. First, I have 5.15 installed (Windows 7), but the issue I had was on an older version and I prefer not to regress. Second, if I did make a copy of my dataset and use FreeFileSync to make a backup copy of this on my external drive and then repeat the steps I took before (which was to delete ALL entries in the config window) there is a possibility (no matter how small) that the same thing may happen to my live data – a risk I am not prepared to take as I’m sure you can understand.
So, to test it, I need a separate machine / external drive / time.
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Irrespective of how the data loss came about in particular, from a logical point of view it must be either unrelated with FFS, or if it is related it must be due to manual deletion of the overview panel since this is the only part of FFS that allows to delete files on both sides.
And there is indeed one thing that could be improved: As mentioned slipping on the ENTER key directly after pressing DEL could result in deletion of files with the confirmation dialog merely flashing. This is in contrast to say Windows Explorer, which will open the file in the associated application before showing the confirmation dialog. That's not what is expected, but at least it avoids deletion due to accidentally pressing both DEL and ENTER shortly after another. In my tests I found Explorer behaves in this way rather than delete the file if the sequence of DEL, ENTER is executed in less than 50ms.
Therefore I've implemented an additional check in FFS that requires that the confirmation dialog is shown for at least 50ms before accepting "OK". Maybe this helps to avoid a few accidental deletions in the future, but given the short time spam it should not be too much of an impediment.
And there is indeed one thing that could be improved: As mentioned slipping on the ENTER key directly after pressing DEL could result in deletion of files with the confirmation dialog merely flashing. This is in contrast to say Windows Explorer, which will open the file in the associated application before showing the confirmation dialog. That's not what is expected, but at least it avoids deletion due to accidentally pressing both DEL and ENTER shortly after another. In my tests I found Explorer behaves in this way rather than delete the file if the sequence of DEL, ENTER is executed in less than 50ms.
Therefore I've implemented an additional check in FFS that requires that the confirmation dialog is shown for at least 50ms before accepting "OK". Maybe this helps to avoid a few accidental deletions in the future, but given the short time spam it should not be too much of an impediment.
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Sorry for the delay in replying - thanks for this useful enhancement.
Could my lost-file problem be caused by the following? Left click on a job in the configuration panel to select it. Move the mouse slightly so it is positioned over the overview panel (which leaves the selected job highlighted), then right-click and 'delete', intending to delete the highlighted job.
Would this delete files?
Could my lost-file problem be caused by the following? Left click on a job in the configuration panel to select it. Move the mouse slightly so it is positioned over the overview panel (which leaves the selected job highlighted), then right-click and 'delete', intending to delete the highlighted job.
Would this delete files?
