FFS yyyy-mm-dd Huh??

[Anonymous]

A folder with the name FFS yyyy-mm-dd hhmmss (i.e. FFS 2012-07-20 020337) has
been created on my NAS drive under the "base" directory. Under this folder are
folders "Application Data", "Cookies", and another FFS folder with an older
date. Within that last folder are another set of folders with the same names
including another FFS folder with an older date. This goes on and on until the
FFS folder has the date of the first backup I did with FFS. The scan tries to
scan this bottomless folder until is aborts due to the path being too long. If
started by the system scheduler, it craps out with no error message left
behind and an empty log file. The NAS drive (USB) used to be connected
directly to my desktop computer.
1. What are these folders for and why does FFS scan them if it knows what they are?
2. How can they be excluded from the scan? Since the excluded files have to be relative to the base folder, and the base folders are different on the source and target drives, how does it know whether you are excluding from the source or the target? Or does it not exclude from the scan and all - only from the target? In which case this is a real conundrum?
3. Can the folder just be deleted off the NAS and problem solved??

The source computer is a Dell XPS desktop running XP Pro 3. The target is a
Seagate 1.5 tb USB drive attached to the router and accessed over Wi-Fi.

HELP!

[Zenju]

The "FFS 2012-07-20 020337" is an intermediate directory that collects all
files that are overwritten or deleted during synchronization and is moved to
recycle bin at the end of the process. So your deletion handling is set to
"recycle bin", but it seems recycler is not supported on your NAS. Usually FFS
detects this and reverts to permanent deletion after showing an error message.
Alas the Windows function used for this check does not seem to be smart enough
to see that recycler is not available. In any case, you should see an error
message "unable to move %x to the recycle bin" during sync. Unless you set
error handling to "ignore errors". Even in this case everything is logged to
"LastSyncs.log" or, if you run FFS batch jobs, to a log directory of your
chosing. Now this failing to delete seems to be a permanent problem, and with
each sync, FFS moves the old temporary directory into a newly created one,
with the hierarchy getting deeper each time.

Questions are:
What version of FFS are you using?
Do you see the error mentioned above in your log?


> Can the folder just be deleted off the NAS and problem solved??


Obviously by using "permanent" deletion or "versioning. However it should be
investigated why FFS didn't detect the absence of the recycler and if there is
a possibility to improve this situation.

[Anonymous]

Thanks! I have no need to use the recycle bin anyway so I'll just change that.
In answer to your questions:
1) It is FFS version 5.5 Build July 1, 2012.
2) In batch mode, the process aborts leaving no traces except an empty log
file.
2) In interactive mode, I just ran it and it halted with an error message that
in couldn't fine a folder on the NAS which I know is there. I clicked on retry
and the scan continued. When is got to the FFS folder, it scanned for a long
time and then stopped with this error "Cannot read directory 'H:\FreeFileSync
Backup\Computers\Dan\Program Files\Calibre2\resources\images\news'. Windows
Error Code 64: The specified network name is no longer available.". I clicked
Retry and got the same error for a different file.

I cancelled the process and will try from scratch specifying not to use the
recycle bin.

Let me know if you would like more information or want me to test anything.

[Anonymous]

I tried to delete the FFS folder in question and while they behave differently
neither my Vista nor XP computers will delete the folder. I even went through
and deleted individual folders under the FFS folders to find out where the
problem is. Bottom line: the problem is in the lowest level (oldest) folders
and they will not be deleted or moved. My router provides no tools for dealing
with folders or files on the NAS drive.

So I cannot backup with FreeFileSync because the scan fails on that folder. I
cannot delete the offending folder. Catch-22.

Anyone know how I can get rid of the folder?

[Giangi]

Unfortunately this is a well-know MS's limitation... If the drive is FAT
formatted is even worst...

I usually find this kind of problems at work since users get "used" to create
folders/files with very long and "meaningfull" names... :-( They can do that
since all shares are mapped locally on their pc, but the root share is
actually a subfolder on servers so sometimes it happens that dealing with
these files from the server is not possible for the same reason (even on NTFS
drives).

So far the only solution I have found is to "subst"ing the path making it
shorter at deletion time! :-) In your example (H:\FreeFileSync
Backup\Computers\Dan\Program Files\Calibre2\resources\images\news) I would try
the following (assuming that Y: is a letter not used, eventually change
it!)

Open a Command Prompt
type subst y: "H:\FreeFileSync Backup\Computers\Dan\Program
Files\Calibre2\resources\images" and press Enter (do not forget the
quotes since there is a space in the name)
Now if you type dir y: you should see the first subfolders news (that
I left out from the subst command) and the files! :-)
execute rd /s /q y: and everything will be deleted! :-) If you get againd
the error just go deeper on the starting folder for the subst command!
Now you can delete the Y: drive executing subst y: /d
The remaining folders/files can be deleted normally... :-)
Good luck!
Ciao, Giangi

[Zenju]

> 2) In batch mode, the process aborts leaving no traces except an empty log
file.


You mean file size 0? So did FFS crash?


> In interactive mode, I just ran it and it halted with an error message that
in couldn't fine a folder on the NAS which I know is there.


I'd be interested in the exact error message. Maybe this gives a clue.


> Windows Error Code 64: The specified network name is no longer available.


Hm, could be due to some general network instability. Not necessarily related
to the problem with the "FFS ..." folders.


> neither my Vista nor XP computers will delete the folder.


Windows shell layer, in your case the Explorer, can't work with paths longer
than 260 characters. In order to delete these folders you need a program that
can handle this; FFS can.


> cannot backup with FreeFileSync because the scan fails on that folder


Your scan fails on the "FFS ..." folder?

All in all I see two main problems:
1. absence of recycler not detected on the NAS
2. the Win32 recycler api automatically reverts to permanent deletion; why is it doing *nothing* in your case. Theory: it crashed; this would also explain the 0-sizes log file

Let me know if you're interested to do a few tests.

[Anonymous]

Yes, file size 0. Opening it with notepad displays nothing.

Yes, the program crashed - that is it's process vanished. No message or log
entry - just vanished.

"Hm, could be due to some general network instability. Not necessarily related
to the problem with the "FFS ..." folders. " -- that's what I thought at first
but if so, it is very flaky. If I make sure the FFS process is indeed gone on
both computers, then I have no trouble accessing files and folders on the NAS
drive.

Yes, the scan fails when it is scanning the folder in question on the NAS
drive. Stupid me, I finally figured out that the Exclude filter works on both
the source and target relative the base folder so excluding the folder, even
though it doesn't exist on the source drive, seems to have solved the problem
of the backup not working. That still leaves 200+ MB of space locked up on the
NAS. Giangi may have solved that for me if I can figure out what he's talking
about.

Yes I am up for some tests that might be helpful. I have already deleted most
of the files in that folder that I could but the problem remains with the
folders and files remaining so I'll leave them there until we can do some
tests.

Wiiiiindy

[Zenju]

> Yes, the program crashed - that is it's process vanished. No message or log
entry - just vanished.


You mean vanish is not the expected behavior, rather than it should wait on
the results dialog? A program vanishing is usally not a symptom of a crash, an
error message from the OS is. You didn't kill the instance, did you?


> Yes I am up for some tests that might be helpful


Are you able to reproduce the problem? To get an overview of what is happening
up to and including when FFS "crashes" a Process Monitor log will be needed -
https://technet.microsoft.com/de-de/sysinternals/bb896645.aspx

[Anonymous]

After struggling for many hours I finally proved to myself that the
router/drive combo I was working with for NAS does not work. It is flaky and a
little research indicated that the drive is not on the router's compatibility
list. Therefore anything could have happened to disrupt the backup and leave
it in an unpredictable state.

Sorry to take up your time but given the above fact, I don't think I can
reproduce the problem. (Also I am not 100% sure I had the batch file set to
not quit immediately on error although "ignore errors" was my intention. In
any case I would expect at least a log entry if the program knew there was an
error.)

I have removed the drive to my desktop and am backing up the laptop
successfully over the network - not my preferred method since I would like it
to work even if the desktop is not available. Until I get a drive compatible
with the router or vice versa, this will suffice.

thanks again for your attention and replying to my post.

Wiiiindy

[Zenju]

The zero-sized log file indicates a crash, since the log is created before
starting sync, but its content is written only after sync. On the other hand
FFS simply vanishing without an error message from the OS indicates FFS did
not crash, but rather terminated successfully (show progress dialog is
probably deactivated, so that FFS will not wait on the results dialog, but
just exit). Maybe these two symptoms are from different runs? Anyway, thanks
for the follow-up, let me know if you further think there is some problem
related to FFS rather than your setup. (or both, where FFS should show better
error handling).

[garyfurash]

I have the same issue. It leaves the FFS directories on one of the sides, then
gives the exact message you describe. I set it to iignore errors:
1. Windows 2007 x64
2. Run as Administrator