Just Quit It

[intexx]

Damn it Zenju!

When are you going to stop dragging everyone through this Adware/ExpiringDonationWare/BrokenInstall crap and just simply start selling licenses for your software?

What... are you afraid people won't pay money for it? Well I'm telling you WE WILL. This is hands down THE BEST file sync application on the planet. Yes, it will sell.

Have I already donated? Yes I have. I'm happy to. Donation/payment... it's all the same to me. But what I don't want to do is pay twice. If I purchase a license for version 8.1 I should be able to reinstall that same version at a later date if my operating system goes sideways and I have to rebuild everything from scratch.

As it is, it looks like I am going to have to pay twice—because my operating system did go sideways and now the v8.1 installer that I archived at the time is reporting corruption and is forcing me to download another one. Since your DonationWare links expire after only a short time, I'm going to have to pay again.

This is just lousy policy.

Here's what a standard retail license will bring for FreeFileSync:

1. You'll be financially able to provide decent support (something that's not happening now)
2. Support traffic in the forum will abate by half (no more adware malware to flag our AVs)
3. You'll have the necessary funding to build in features that are by now expected of a modern software package (user accounts at the website, support ticketing, billing history, etc.)

And this is the short list.

Do something sensible and ditch that horrendous, cancerous GNU license. Start charging money for this thing. The software and the customer experience will improve by leaps and bounds.

Do this for us and for yourself.

Thanks,
Jeff Bowman
Fairbanks, Alaska

[gdhm]

:) I see you are on the same topic as in the past Jeff and I recognize your point is a valid viewpoint

Maybe, why should there be an either or option scenario.

IMO there is a 3rd way that would meet all User requirements

Offer 3 options.

I do not like reoccurring donation systems much as it keeps needing to be renewed and card/account details exposed on the web, nor do I like the major version update system requiring Private home users o keep paying for updates when Author decides a version update is a major one.

As Zenju clearly has been willing to allow his app to be free to ALL, I assume drawing a large some from each user is not his intention or desire. However he is entitled to be rewarded for all his efforts and support.

How about:
1) continuing to offer an OC or whatever installer option for those willing to deal with Ad installers, software offers and PUP warnings/blocking form the antivirus software (as current)

2) A lifetime ONE OFF purchase price for FFS and all future upgrades for personal/private use with a one PC limit or household 2 or 3 (incl. laptops etc.) MUST BE FOR PRIVATE NON COMMERCIAL USE)

3) A commercial License for multiple PCs, servers and commercial networks. Up to Zenju if a renewable fee should be charged each year or whatever for large organizations/commercial entities. These usually have an IT budget for such things and I am sure FFS will be a TINY expense in the grand order their company budgets.

IMHO this meets Zenju's apparent goal for offer FFS free and equally allow those willing to pay for it and avoid the Installer issues the option to do so.

I admit I am a retired home user with limited finances but this these types of options allow Zenju to give his app free to the less well off and charge a moderate charge for those spending large amounts on their Company or SMEs IT infrastructure.

Just a thought for consideration for what its worth
Regards
Dave

[Zenju]

> A lifetime ONE OFF purchase
How much should this cost? It's basically impossible to calculate a reasonable price without knowing the future. Also as soon as you start charging money you have an obligation. Sooner or later you'll get specific feature requests from people or a company who paid more money than others that just don't fit into the concept of the software or are not of general interest. I think part of what's great about FreeFileSync is that it has never compromised its design by listening to a vocal minority at the expense of the majority.
Donations don't have this implied expectation of extra-influence on the product, so I prefer them, even if they have an unspecified amount, over selling for a fixed price.

Also (with the exception of a small fraction of donors) the FreeFileSync user base will not want to pay (and that's fine). It makes sense because the way they found FFS is probably that they searched for free software.
So although it's nice to "dream big" of great business models, it won't happen (at scale), but a paid FFS will only appeal to a minority. Still this minority is relevant enough to come up with a better model than the current. But I believe the current model (with an ad-free version for an arbitrary-amount donation) is still a great step forward compared to not having it.

> I don't want to do is pay twice
I understand, it's cumbersome. It can't be a problem because it's "too expensive", since the amount is not fixed. Also I don't want PayPal fees to eat up all small donations, but rather have one donation that matches in sum the smaller ones.

Maybe the solution is a "one-year license" model. Its duration is not for all eternity, so I could come up with a price. I could integrate it into the donation framework, like "every donation of at least X" will get a "one-year license". As an incentive to prefer this over the regular version (I get that the ad is annoying, but I wouldn't pay for software if all I had to do is to decline the ad) I could implement an auto-updater as a small perk.

>the v8.1 installer that I archived at the time is reporting corruption
Unrelated to this general discussion, but that's a bug! All FFS installers are free-standing. If you're interested we can try to find out what is failing.

[intexx]

A word about my accusation of lackluster support...

This was based on my impressions from approximately a year ago, when such was the case. As with everything, though, times and events change, demanding more or less of our attention as they ebb and flow. I understand.

But you're johnny-on-the-spot now, which is what counts. I've spoken too soon; pardon me please.

I appreciate your offer to help debug the 8.1 installer, but I'd rather move on if it's all the same. I've donated again for v8.2 and reinstalled, so all is well.

I suppose I don't mind sending a few bux your way when I'm ready to update to a new version. After all, you deserve it.

So it seems my hardened stance has softened a bit in the past 24 hours. I don't know how that happened; it's giving me a headache. I'd better knock it off before I hurt myself.

Keep up the good work.

Thanks,
Jeff Bowman
Fairbanks, Alaska

[intexx]

It's good to see you again, Dave :-)

[gdhm]

It's good to see you again, Dave :-)

and you too Jeff :). I see you are in Alaska. Our climates could not be much more opposite as I live in a baking part of S.E Asia (most months ranging between 32C to 42C). Recently we had 2 weeks of over 40C.

Zenju, I am truly sorry, IF it seemed as I was criticizing your decisions or am unhappy with this to date. I was not and am not. Only you know what you want and wish financially and only YOU know what balance YOU wish between paid donations and FFS being free. I was merely offering what I intended to be alternative proactive suggestions for YOUR consideration and decisions ALONE.

I agree and guessed most do not and probably would not pay (if they can help it). Being honest to all and you, I personally have never paid for FFS.

Your idea of a one year licence if donation over "X" amount seems a very good idea if easy for you to maintain.

For info: I did not suggest any lifetime one off payment amount because I have no idea what you earn now or desire for your efforts, nor do I know if you get adequate new users to make that possible. Even more importantly, It's certainly is not FOR ME or ANYBODY ELSE to know that info, nor for me (or others) to suggest to you what amount(s) we guess may be appropriate. I have seen some software offer "lifetime one off" payment, hence why I offered that suggestion for your consideration, but of course their circumstances may well have been very different and maybe updates, new versions and support rare (honestly don't know) :)

Zenju, what I genuinely believe is You should do what YOU decide and wish to do. You are the Author putting vast amounts of effort and time into FFS and we are your 99% (in my case 100%) happy and grateful Users.

Kind Regards
Dave

[doggrunner]

Hi,

I made another donation on 5/28 and then two days later the next version is out. It would be nice to not not have to donate again. I don't know what the cutoff should be. Perhaps you could post that an update is coming.

best regards

[drivetheory]

>
How much should this cost? It's basically impossible to calculate a reasonable price without knowing the future.

WinRAR = unlimited trial, lifetime license option, been around about 2 decades
http://www.rarlab.com/

7-zip = free, donations accepted, been around almost 2 decades now
http://www.7-zip.org/

DOSBox = free, donations accepted, been around over a decade
https://www.dosbox.com/

Nirsoft Tools = free, donations accepted, been around almost a decade
http://launcher.nirsoft.net/

vDOS = free, paid license option, been around a handful of years
https://www.vdos.info/


So, there you have it, almost a half dozen of examples off the top of my head, their pricing model, and their lifespan. I'm sure you've heard of most if not all of these. Every one of these companies/products was developed and polished throughout the years. I've given money to every one for my own personal or business use.

[Zenju]

Okay, here's some crazy idea. I really would like to get rid of the installer advertisement. Yet the installer advertisment has the property of being steady and reliabe, while donations have a lot of randomness about them. I often read that a donation is dedicated to removing the installer ads. And in fact it is currently removed but only for the donor himself and only once. What if the ad were not only removed for the donor but also for a certain number of other users who download at a later time?
For example for a 5 € donation, the next 20 downloads would also be add-free? (I'll have to do some calc for real numbers, but these are for a start). So a donor would not only help himself, but also others and also help the FFS project. This could give a reasonable incentive for people to donate a higher amount (currently there is no difference if you donate 1€ or 5€) while also help getting rid of the installer ad - but in a controlled manner.
To add some kind of gamification, I could have some counter on the downloads page like "currently the next 100 downloads will be ad free thanks to donations" and a notice like "for each 25ct donated an ad will be removed".
Personally I love coming up with unique ideas, and I don't care that I've never heard about other open source projects doing something similar. What do you think?

[intexx]

That's kind of like retail pricing, isn't it...? ;-)

Sounds good to me. Don't forget the edge cases like doggrunner's.

Thanks,
Jeff Bowman
Fairbanks, Alaska

[Plerry]

The biggest resentment against the present donation approach seems to be
that for the next update/release/version you have to donate again to omit the
the advertisement(s) or (potentially?) unwanted programs (PUPs).
That problem is not "solved" by the suggested new donation approach.
One might even need to take care that, after donating, others have not
already consumed the "your" full number of advertisement-free downloads.

Another suggestion can be:
Link advertisement/PUP-free downloads to "user-accounts" registered for this forum.
A registered forum-user that donates would then acquire certain number of advertisement/PUP-free
downloads of the present and future updates/releases/versions, depending on the amount donated.
Someone that is prepared to donate for FFS is most like also prepared to register on the FFS site.

[JustOneLook]

Maybe the "Paypal only" approach is part of the problem. Their TOS appear to the common-sense mind just as fishy as piggyback adwares do. A plain credit card merchant account would just look that much more professional to me. FFS was made with love, not with return-on-investment in mind. And it has come of age by now. I suggest showing that to people with a choice of donation options as well.

[Mogo583]

It was good to read Zenju's post which explained the situation well from his viewpoint. I would prefer to stay with the small donation-get an ad-free download. I can choose whether to upgrade or not with a new version.