Errors

[Ted F]

I made 2 errors. These are listed below. My questions is whether my saved configuration would have remained intact and whether it can be safely used for continued synchronizations without having been corrupted.

First error: I have a saved configuration containing four folder pairs and clicked "compare" with the wrong backup drive connected to my laptop. I received a warning that "The following folders do not yet exist" and then the paths to the four target backup folders were listed. The message at the bottom was that the folders are created automatically when needed.

Second error: For the same saved configuration as above, I clicked compare without any backup drive connected to the laptop. I received an error message that my four target backup folders could not be found (paths were listed). Then there were four Error code 3s stating "Cannot read the attributes of "D:\". Error Code 3: The system cannot find the path specified . [GetFileArributes] (D is the backup drive). I assume that since there were four Error Code 3s, there was a separate error code 3 for each of the four backup folders.

The error messages are attached.

Thanks,
Ted

[Radish]

The errors won't make any difference to your configuration file. The configuration file only gets saved when you physically give expressed permission for it to be saved. This is very useful. Let's say you have a configuration set up the way you would like it to be and that you have saved that configuration. Now let's say at a later time you want to experiment with changing something for that configuration -- just so you can test something out. Well you can modify the configuration in FFS, then test your change. If you find that you don't like the change you made, no sweat, just, in the configuration file listing, click on another configuration, or click in some empty space in the listing -- FFS will then ask if you want to save the configuration you just modified to test. Just click the "Don't Save" button and the configuration will remain in an unaltered state (as it was before you started modifying for your test). So, in short, configurations don't get saved unless you explicitly tell FFS to do so. So you can modify and test a configuration to your heart's content -- just don't save the changes unless you really do want to keep them.

With respect to backing-up to external USB HDDs and/or USB Flash Drives you might come across an issue where you have the external device connected to the computer but FFS, apparently, can't find the device because Windows has given the device a different "drive letter" than the drive letter the device had when you setup your configuration (file). If that happens then you could get the kind of errors from FFS that you have indicated above and might get initially confused as to why -- after all the device is connected. To get around that you can use what FFS refers to as specifying the path to the device via the "volume name" of the external device. Instructions on how to do this are here: Variable Drive Letters This is a very useful feature of FFS and one I use all the time for external devices.

[Ted F]

This is extremely helpful, Radish. One follow-up question: To use the volume name instead of the path with the drive letter, can I use the name of the USB Flash Drive that is already there or should I change it? If I change the volume name, will this impact other uses of the Flash Drove for purposes other than the backup?
Thanks.

[Ted F]

In addition to the follow-up question immediately above, is a two step process required to specify the path via a volume name, ie:
1. Select the target folder path with the drive letter by drag and drop or browse and click
2. Use the pull down menu to select the volume name
Thanks

[Radish]

I'm not entirely sure I understand your first question but for what I think you are asking:

Yes, you can use the already existing volume name of a flash drive or you can change the volume name to anything that suits you. If you do change the volume name then this shouldn't have any effect on other uses of the flash drive. I would suppose there might be one exception to this -- that you have another program that also accesses the flash drive via using the volume name. (I don't know of any other program that has this facility.) If that were the case then in that other program you would have to remember to alter the existing volume name stored in that program to the new volume name you gave the flash drive.

With respect to the 'two step process'. Well, yes, if you are using the mouse to set this up then it is a two step process. However, you can just replace the drive letter and colon (e.g. W:\Backup) by typing in the volume name (e.g. [USB-1]\Backup). Whichever method you use, and assuming you want to keep things that way, remember to save the (now modified) configuration and in future FFS will access the external device via the volume name -- so then you don't have to two step your way through it again, you just plug in the USB and you are good to go.

Note that I've been talking about 'flash drives' above. But you can use the same method for accessing partitions on an HDD. I frequently find that when I plug in an external HDD to do a backup that the 'partition letters' (i.e. the equivalent of 'drive letters') will be different than what they were the last time I plugged in the external HDD. Again, instead of using the drive/partition letters you can use the volume name (method) in their place. So, for example, with a single HDD that has several partitions on it you can specify the partition to save the backup to in this way (Where each of the volume labels shown in bold are the partition labels that I setup on the external HDD.):

[HDD DOCUMENTS]\
[HDD PORTABLES]\PORTABLES
[HDD BULK]\SOFTWARE

And so on to suit your own purposes. Just experiment with it a bit and you will see how it goes.

[Ted F]

Thanks Radish. I am slowly learning how best to use Free File Sync thanks to you. I am backing up using a 2 Tb external hard drive that is not partitioned into smaller drives. Am I correct that the same principles apply to this as to a flash drive?

Also, when setting up a configuration with multiple folder pairs, I sometimes make mistakes by selecting the wrong source or target. Am I right that I can correct the error without having to start all over since Free File sync should have no permanent record of what was entered until the configuration is saved, and that re-entering a source or target won't corrupt anything?

[Radish]

As far as I know, yes, the same principles apply to HDDs as apply to a flash drives.

As to setting up multiple folder pairs and making mistakes, which you then correct/amend, any changes you make won't be saved to the configuration until such times as you save the configuration. You can make changes then run a Compare to see if it is doing what you want -- you can even run the Synchronise to see if it is doing what you want, though in that case files will be moved/copied etc. (which won't happen if you just do a Compare) according to whatever your current configuration instructs FFS to do -- however, again, the configuration won't be saved until such times as you manually save the configuration.

For my own use of FFS I only ever use the Mirror syncing method (which covers all my needs). But I found, in the beginning, that the best thing to do while learning the basics is to just run test comparisons/syncs using test data/files, so that if I made a mistake nothing untoward could happen that I couldn't recover from. So I would say, in the beginning, take things slowly, run tests and you will fairly quickly pick up the basics.

[Ted F]

Radish you have been extremely helpful. I am following your advice by continuing to set up test configurations and to run test comparisons and syncs. In the end, my real configuration will be created with several folder pairs and will mirror 285 GB. It will not be possible to check every file manually. Can I assume that if my final saved configuration has the correct source and target for each of the folder pairs, and that if I do a mirror sync and then a comparison that shows there are no differences between the source and backup target (except for the saved configuration file on the source side if I waited until after the sync to save the configuration file, that I did everything correctly?
Thanks

[Radish]

Yes, you will have done everything correctly. As you have worked out, just run the comparison again after the sync and it will show up any differences in terms of what Variant you have chosen in the Comparison Settings (i.e. File time and size, File content, or File size). To see what Variant you are using for comparison, in the FFS GUI, just press the F6 key and a window will open showing the Variant being used.

Only thing that I can think of, and it is a common issue posted into this forum, is that Daylight Saving Time might cause a problem and catch you unawares. Happened to me once and I was, initially, quite baffled by it. For details of the issue and how to avoid it see this Manual page: Daylight Saving Time.

In any case, sounds like you're getting the idea now and running tests until you're confident you understand the basics is a good idea.

[Ted F]

Thank you Radish. Very helpful.

Regarding the Daylight Saving Time issue, both my laptop hard drive and external backup drive are formatted with NTFS. Will this avoid the DST issue without my having to do anything?

[Radish]

As far as I am aware if the source drive and the destination drive are both formatted NTFS then that would avoid any daylight saving time issue.

[Ted F]

Thanks again

[Radish]

You're welcome, Ted. Good luck with it. Once I gained confidence in FFS I find that it saves me hours compared to how long it used to take me doing manual backups.

[Ted F]

One more question. For my large backup that takes about 2 hours, if I run it overnight then the completed backup will be waiting a long time for me to close the successfully completed window because this won't be until the morning. Will everything still be OK to save the configuration several hours after completion of the backup?

[Ted F]

In addition to above question, some of the folders that I sync using Filesync are "local" OneDrive folders that are on my laptop. I wanted to make my test backups faster and so I reduced the size of the "local" folders within OneDrive by no longer syncing the larger ones with OneDrive in the cloud. This meant that these folders were no longer on my laptop although they remained on OneDrive in the cloud. Thus Filesync could not see them and would not back them up. However, my Filesync configuration files were in a folder within OnerDrive and these disappeared from my local drive too. Thus they were no longer visible in my list of configuration files when I opened Filesync. I then synced the Filesync configuration files on OneDrive with my laptop and they reappeared on my laptop. I then opened the configuration file within Filesync and everything seemed fine.Thus it seems that I can reload the configuration file by simply opening it after it has been restored to my laptop. Is this correct and is there anything to worry about?

[Radish]

Will everything still be OK to save the configuration several hours after completion of the backup?

I can't think of a reason why you need to save the configuration after you have done a backup. Is that something you think you have to do to use FFS for backing-up? I would suppose that if you were just testing out a particular configuration you might want to do this if you were satisfied with the results of the test. However, in day-to-day use there is no necessity to save a configuration once a backup is completed.

Your OneDrive questions are above my pay-grade so I can't answer them - don't know anything about that I'm afraid.

[Ted F]

Two things:
After creating the configuration for the backup for the first time, I would like to use the same configuration again on a regular basis. Thus the configuration needs to be saved once so that it can be used again. The tutorial video shows the configuration being saved after the backup is done and so I thought I would do the same. I was advised earlier that I could save the configuration before running the first backup. Is that correct? If yes, it would make things easier.

Also, if the configuration is already saved, can I then run the backup overnight and then just close it even though it has been sitting in a finished state for a few hours?

[Radish]

Ted, you only need to save a configuration once you have created it and you have tested it as fine. Once that configuration is saved you never need to save it again (unless of course you make changes to it which you want to keep). It is not necessary, in normal day-to-day use, to save your configuration before you run a sync. Nor is it necessary to save a configuration after every time a backup is completed. The actual process of doing a backup in no way alters the configuration, so there is, from that point of view, nothing to save because nothing has changed.

Also, yes, you can run your overnight backup, and just close it when you get back to the computer even if that is a few hours/days/whatever since the backup was completed.

If you want an answer to your OneDrive questions you might be better to start a new thread dealing specifically with the OneDrive questions. I think you might have a better chance of getting an answer that way.

[Ted F]

Is it OK to the save the configuration before doing a compare or running a sync?

[Radish]

Yes, it is okay to save the configuration before doing a compare or running a sync, so long as you are happy with the configuration that wouldn't be any kind of a problem. But I am still puzzling over why you seem to think it is necessary to keep saving a configuration all the time -- if you haven't changed anything in the configuration from the last time you saved it there really isn't any point in (re)saving the configuration every time you want to run a compare and then a sync; you achieve exactly nothing by doing so. That said, if you want to keep (re)saving, even though you haven't changed anything since the last time it was saved, then you won't do any harm by doing so either.

Put another way, doing a compare will not in any way modify the configuration. Doing a sync will in no way modify a configuration either. Do you see? After the initial creation and saving of a configuration there is nothing that FFS will do that will alter the configuration. The only thing that can alter the configuration is you and only if you deliberately make changes to it that you do, then, want to save. That is the only scenario in which it would be necessary to (re)save the configuration (provided you are happy with the changes you made).

[Ted F]

To clarify, I am not "resaving" the configuration each time I run a sync. I an referring to the 'initial" saving of the configuration. The tutorial video shows this as being done after the first sync.

[Radish]

Then I would assume that the reason the video is doing so is because that first sync was in effect a test sync -- hence, if you are happy with the results then you would save the configuration at that point in time so that from there on in you could run the same compare (and check that the proposed actions are okay with you) and sync sequence without having to create the configuration anew.

Yes, I just watched the Mirror Synchronization video and this is what is being done in that video - the configuration is being saved after doing the sync because the sync was regarded as being okay -- hence save the configuration for use at a later time.

That said, there is nothing to prevent you from saving the configuration at any point in the create-configuration/compare/sync process. However, I would regard that as foolhardy, personally I would never save a configuration without first testing it and checking it was fine and producing the desired results.

[Ted F]

The reason that I thought it best to save before testing is that my test sync takes a long time and if the configuration is already saved I don't have to worry anything happening to it over the several hours during the night that the completed sync window will be on my screen. If there is a problem it seems very easy to delete the configuration and start over. Am I missing something?

[Ted F]

In addition to my above post at 12:42 today, It occurred to me that I should confirm that I am testing my new configuration for a mirror sync properly. I do the following:
1. Check that I have selected the correct folder pairs for the sync
2. Compare the source and target folders before doing a sync. I expect to see differences.
3. Run the sync
4. Do another Compare between the source and target folders (I do this after saving the configuration, clicking new and opening it again to make sure that it was saved properly and can be retrieved). If there are no differences between the source and target folders, except for the saved configuration on the source side since the configuration is being saved to one of the folders being backed up, then I conclude that the sync was done correctly.
Am I missing anything?

[Radish]

Step 4. I'm not sure that is necessary to click 'new'. When you save the configuration that is it 'set in stone' so to speak. So, if you want to, you just run the compare at some point in time after the sync and any differences will show up.

[Ted F]

You are very helpful, Radish. Since I am obsessive, I did an extra step and checked the number of source and target files and folders in a test sync and found that 1 - 2 files were missing from the target in each of three folder pairs when looking at the folder properties but that no files were missing when manually counting the files.

Also, a Compare in Filesync showed that the source and target matched perfectly after the sync. I am trying to understand why there are missing files. The folder pairs included a data folder, as well as my favorites and desktop folders.

I should add that in the Favorites folder, there is a Favorites Bar folder. This gets renamed as Links in the target.

My exclude rules were:

Files exclude rules (default)
\System Volume Information\
\$Recycle.Bin\
\RECYCLE?\
*\desktop.ini
*\thumbs.db

I added \.*

Is there an explanation for the missing files in the target folders as noted in the folder properties, whereas Filesynsc shows no missing files and a manual inspection also shows no missing files? Also, is favorites bar supposed to be renamed as Links? Does all of this mean there is something wrong?

[Radish]

I don't know why you are getting a different file count reported by Windows Explorer Properties. However, you might find the following helpful to troubleshot on your own system: Why does Windows Explorer show a different number of items? That said if you are doing a manual/visual count yourself and things are showing up fine then you would (as the FAQ says) need to troubleshot what the issue is on your own system.

As to your exclude filter:
\.*
I don't understand it. As far as I can see you are telling FFS to filter out all files with no filename and any extension. However, in Windows, as far as I am aware, you can't create a file or folder that doesn't have a filename before the extension (strictly speaking I don't think that for folders a folder with, say, the title test.anything that the ".anything" part of that folder title is regarded as an extension. Put another way I think the concept of having an extension only applies to files, not to folders. I don't know if FFS would regard a folder with that sort of title as having an extension.

In any case, if it was me, I would try removing that exclude filter, run a test compare and sync and see if that has any effect on the file count that Windows Explorer Properties is reporting. (I would guess that you won't see any difference in the file count, and difference, you are reporting as the filter can't actually do anything anyway, at least as far as I think I can understand what it is trying to do.) Remember that, as this is only test, you wouldn't want to save the configuration unless you really do want to preserve the change you made i.e. the removal of that exclude filter for testing purposes.

I have no idea at all why your "Favorites Bar" folder (whatever that is) is being renamed to "Links" at the target.

All above said you are moving into territory that is scraping at the limit of my pay-grade - my use of FFS is very simple so I don't know much about complexities. So maybe someone else might want to chip in if I've got something wrong.

[Radish]

P.S. I just tested doing a mirror sync on my entire Favorites folder. The source Favorites folder contains the following folders and I have shown the names the folders get at the destination for the backup:

Favorites Bar --> Links
Microsoft Websites --> Microsoft Websites
MSN Websites --> MSN Websites
Websites for United Kingdom --> Links for United Kingdom
Windows Live --> Windows Live

So two folders (highlighted) were renamed to something different at the destination. Kind of scratching my head on this. I then had a look at the exclude filters that were being used for the sync and thought that the Exclude Filter *\desktop.ini might be the culprit. I deleted that filter and OK-ed my way out of the Filters dialogue, did another test sync and the problem with the renames disappeared. Hence, would seem that what name these folders get is in some way dependent on the desktop.ini files being present/absent at the destination. So, it would seem, if you want to avoid this problem you would need to devise a way of including the desktop.ini files for the sync of the Favorites folder, but only for that folder and its subfolders, assuming you don't normally want desktop.ini files included for other folders in you backup configuration. (I'm not sure how this could be done perhaps by setting up a Local Include Filter just for the Favorites folder. Not sure if this can be done but, don't have time to experiment with it just now.

[Ted F]

The reason for excluding \.* in the filter is that Onedrive creates hidden files starting with “.” and these files cannot be backed up by Free Filesync. Having said that, I have stopped backing up files from Onedrive because I am not sure that Free FileSync can handle these safely.

I assume that the exclude filter may be accounting for some of the source files not being backed up and thus leading to a difference in the file count between the source and target folders as noted in the Windows File Explorer Properties. Also, from your post it looks like excluding *\desktop.ini might account for the files being renamed.

The bottom line question is the following:
Since Compare in Filesync showed that the source and target folders matched perfectly after the sync, and there was a message after the sync that it was completed successfully, can we conclude that the difference in file count between the source and target folders as shown in the File Explorer Properties, as well as the renaming of folders such as the Favorites Bar, is due to the normal functioning of the Exclude Filter and Windows, and that the backup is therefore accurate and reliable and that there is nothing to be concerned about?

[Radish]

I'm not sure what to conclude regarding the differences in file count. If you read the FAQs article that I pointed to it could well be the case that Windows is miscounting the files. The article does give some hints as to how you can test this, so you would have to do those tests yourself to help you decide what you can/cannot conclude. As you have done a manual check yourself and, from that check, you say that things actually look okay then I would say from that I would conclude that most likely the issue of the Windows file count is in fact an issue with Windows and has nothing to do with FFS. That said, I would be thinking of ways of testing with FFS if that is the case (and following the suggestions in the FAQs on how to do that). As I'm not at your computer I can't think of and devise some tests -- only you can do that (only you know what you're trying to sync).

If I was you I would make a separate thread asking why FFS is failing to copy over your Onedrive files that start with a dot "." character. That to me does sound like a problem with FFS, maybe even a bug.

(Incidentally, I did find a way of creating files and folders that do start with no filename but do have an 'extension' so it is possible to do this in Windows by using not normal/routine means. For example, I created a folder ".test" and a file ".testfile". I then made them hidden and did a test sync that would include them in the list of files/folders to copy. FFS did copy them without problems. Hence, the result that you are getting with Onedrive files does sound suspicious to me.)